Friday, March 10, 2006

Prof. George Reisman weighs in on the Global Warming Bugaboo. Good stuff.

21 Comments:

At 3/10/2006 7:32 PM, Anonymous Canuckguy said...

Good stuff!! Good stuff!! You got to be kidding. Ah, however, I know you are not kidding,. Jeez, I couldn't stifle myself after I saw that. Reisman’s article is unmitigated crap. He has his head up his ass, Or more politely put, his head buried in the sand oblivious to the coming troubles. He is old enough that he will most likely be dead before the shit really hits the fan so for sure he will want to maintain his comfort zone. This far right wingnut, no doubt a Bush Republican, airily dismisses the really obvious evidence that we, as a planet, are heading into big trouble. Frogs and polar bears today, tomorrow the world. (a little facetious here but have to inject some humour)

I won’t recount all the listed evidence here and there is no point in doing so. It’s like dealing with a religious fanatic, who takes irrational beliefs on faith. And I realize that no action will be taken to lessen climate change because humans will be humans. Shortsightedness is our strong point. In 1900, there were 1 billion of us, in 1960, three billion and now there are 6 billion. Not many cars in 1900. Imagine the impact humans are finally having on the planet now, whereas before , as short while ago as 1900, I would say we were equivalent to a couple of dozen lice on the body of a very large dog., just sucking a little nutrition out of him and causing a some itching.

Of course, as a human, I lived well, enjoying the good life that modern (western) society provides but the chickens are coming home to roost. Chicken Little has a point, the sky is falling, the sky is falling, (not literally but bad shit is gonna come). Hurricanes are the very least of problems to most people unless you live in their path. I have no solutions, We can’t move back into caves to hunt and gather. Not enough caves. Maybe the chicken flue will cull us out by 50%. Chicken Little gets the last laugh, A lot of chicken imagery here, I know, especially if you consider an ostrich as just a big long necked chicken.(head in sand)

I just intend to float through life and hope to be dead before my comfort zone is intruded upon too much by the effects of climate change. I fear for my children’s security however.

Speaking of the bird flue, since I can’t do a damn thing about it, I am choosing to regard those scientific doomsayers as boys crying wolf. They have been whining about it for quite a while. Hope it all just fizzles out and life goes on.

I read Reisman’s Muslim comment and there he makes 100% sense. So he is not a total idiot.

 
At 3/10/2006 9:07 PM, Blogger Ace said...

Leaving the broader global warming debate aside, as the evidence behind the so-called anthropogenic causes of the "phenomenon" which has everyone in such a state of panic is far from convincing, I think Prof. Reisman skillfully makes a salient point. Specifically, the environmentalist movement is not above doing exactly what it accuses its detractors of doing, namely dismissing science that it deems inconvenient, yet wholeheartedly embracing science that underpins its cause du jour. Hypocrisy cuts both ways, and it appears the great "truth-seekers" of the environmental left are hardly immune.

 
At 3/14/2006 9:51 AM, Anonymous Canuckguy said...

So aside from nit picking about some self-serving environmentalists and the few wacko extremists, the bottom line question is: What are you defending, Reisman's debunking of the threat of global warning? Because that is what he is trying to do with his nit picking. He does not seem to understand the big picture or does he want to. I would say his mind set is the same as that of a holocaust denier.

Environmentalists are taking scientific information as it becomes available and pointing out patterns and suggesting long term repercussions, a thing that the information digging scientists do as well but the environmentalist has more PR savvy and better at getting the message out. Would you (or Reisman) have so readily dismissed Rachel Carson's book "Silent Spring" had you been an adult in the late 60's? She was airily dismissed by people of the same ilk as Reisman. History proved her fundamentally right. She is considered the founder of the environmental movement and thank god for people like her and those following in her footsteps. Now back to the issue of global warming, well just how much convincing do you need? Or at least, don't you at least accept that the environmental and scientists (including the government employee fired by the Bush Republicans for speaking out about the problem) have legitimate concerns that need exposure?

 
At 3/14/2006 7:38 PM, Blogger Ace said...

So global warming skeptics are akin to Holocaust deniers now? Something tells me the very jewish Prof. Reisman would be more than a little offended by such a characterization.

It seems the environmentalist movement is going a lot further than simply "pointing out patterns and suggesting long term repercussions". Their "PR savvy" mainly consists of repeating ever more dire Doomsday scenarios loudly and often, regardless of whether climate research actually backs up those claims.

Some in that camp aren't oblivious to the ethical dilemma inherit in forsaking honest science for jazzy media soundbites. As one Stanford climatologist put it:

"On the one hand we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but...which means that we must include all the doubts, caveats, ifs and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists, but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climate change. To do that we have to get some broad-based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have."

Since you've already cheapened the debate by invoking the Holocaust, I guess it's kosher to say it sounds to me like the environmental PR gurus have quite ably employed Goebbels adage that a big lie can work if it is repeated often enough.

As for the government employee "fired by the Bush Republicans", I applaud the Administration for turfing someone who clearly had some veracity issues.

 
At 3/14/2006 7:55 PM, Blogger Ace said...

For the record, here's a different take on Rachel Carson's legacy.

 
At 3/19/2006 8:32 AM, Anonymous Canuckguy said...

Jeez, why do you have a problem with climate warming claims, which have a lot of merit? You and the Bush Republicans swallowed hook, line and sinker the Big Bush deceit about Iraq. WMD claim Oh, yeah “Mission accomplished”, yeah right, Bush has to live that down, Yeah, come on, open wider, you and your ilk want to take it all. But hey, I swallowed it all and fully believed all the false claims made to justify the invasion of Iraq. Why did I? Because I am essentially pro American and trusted the administration at the time. I still am pro American and rather have the USA as the big kid on the block considering the alternatives. But I don’t trust that administration. Ah, but I digress.

How is it an insult and cheapening the debate to use the term “Holocaust denial” for comparison purposes? It makes a great point when comparing blind mindsets, it's right up there as a great metaphor. Is the term so sacred, like Mohammed’s image,(you are not going to riot in your neighbourhood streets over this are you?), that it can’t be used as a metaphor in debating purposes? It is not the ‘Holocaust’ I question, it’s the ‘denial’ that I have issue with..

Regarding Carson, I read the article and browsed through the some other articles in that website. I was expecting an extreme right wing black hole website but it seems quite balanced. You have a point but she had her own valid points but it appears she slipped up on some aspects of scientific rigorous methods. Without doubt a lot of time and study has been done since, the 60’s seem so long ago. If I took the time, I probably could dig up equally reasoned commentary on why DDT should not be sprayed willy nilly and I accept that there may be a good case to use it in special situations. But I will let the experts prove that one way or another. If you want to spray your neighbourhood with it, go right ahead. However I don’t think mosquitoes are a big problem in your neighbourhood..

As for James Hansen, well if I take the article at face value, he was a bad choice as an example considering what appears to be his hidden political agenda. But that Climate Warming Report website is so totally devoted to challenging every study claiming global warning is an serious looming problem. It is too dismissive and certainly has its own agenda. Probably run by Corporate Republicans.

There use to be a time that arguing about scientific facts was more defined and conclusive but now it seems to be falling into the realm of old religious debates (how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, etc). The arguments flow back and forth and leaves the laymen befuddled. You have raised some doubts in my mind, I better look at other stuff other than just Time Magazine, Globe&Mail and CNN, I guess.

 
At 3/19/2006 6:03 PM, Blogger Ace said...

Just adding some fodder to the debate here. My problem with environmentalists stems from their sanctimonious preachings against the industrialized West. Leaves one with the impression that they are cut from the same cloth as those insufferable, ultra-devout Southern Baptist demagogues you see prattling on cable TV.

Seriously though, you've got to get off this tired canard that the Republicans are behind all that is unholy in this world. Being a global warming skeptic does not come part and parcel with party membership.

 
At 3/20/2006 3:07 PM, Anonymous Canuckguy said...

The Bush Republicans are behind a lot what is 'unholy' in the USA. I will not blame them for the starving and diseased and oppressed in Africa and else where however.

Speaking of fodder, you must have had to eat great heaping loads of your words in the past

 
At 3/20/2006 9:47 PM, Blogger Ace said...

I'm sure the President will be happy to know at least one of his critics is fair-minded enough to not hold him responsible for the plight of starving Africans.

For the record, I've never had to eat great heaping loads of anything, let alone my words.

 
At 3/21/2006 12:04 PM, Anonymous Canuckguy said...

Speaking of fodder, remember this? I present to you a little taste treat from the past. Enjoy!
The Ace Rant:
Wednesday, April 09, 2003
So, that little Iraq mess took all of 3 weeks to run its course. Where's all the fearsome resistance the Anti-War groups said coalition troops would face? Where's all the dead Americans, writhing in the sand, consumed with poison gas and nerve agents? Where's the populist rebellion against the evil imperialist invaders? Where's the fresh, mushrooming groundswell of anger from the "Arab Street"?
posted by Ace @ 4:28 PM

Canuckguy’s Smug Comment: So have you your answers to the first question and the last two questions now? You might want the HP sauce so you can more easily eat your words. They are rather stale. You want fries with that?

 
At 3/21/2006 11:06 PM, Blogger Ace said...

You may want to put that HP sauce back in the fridge.

I stand by every word, which were written in response to the histrionic war critics who opposed deposing Saddam. With respect to questions 1, 3, and 4, coalition troops faced relatively light to moderate resistance from Iraqi forces for about 3 weeks, the ongoing insurgent attacks since the end of the main military campaign can hardly be classified as "populist rebellion", and Arab public opinion towards America is about where it was when the war begin, ergo no "mushrooming groundswell".

If you're mining my archives for prime fodder to throw in my face, you should have used this nugget where I sort of sided with Liza Minnelli in her dispute with ex-hubby David Gest. Yick.

 
At 3/22/2006 11:43 AM, Blogger azgopbabeval said...

WOW. looks like someone has nothing better to do all day at work than argue via the net.

 
At 3/22/2006 3:18 PM, Blogger azgopbabeval said...

PS- WHAT does the Iraq War have to do with Global Warming?
Two completely different subjects.

 
At 3/22/2006 3:18 PM, Blogger azgopbabeval said...

PS- WHAT does the Iraq War have to do with Global Warming?
Two completely different subjects.

 
At 3/22/2006 5:47 PM, Anonymous Canuckguy said...

Sure your response, at the time, hit the mark but consider the long-term big picture. The American administration did not consider the consequences nor learn from history. Vietnam a case in point as was the Russian experience in Afghanistan. If the Russians, who don’t play nice in war nor care about public opinion and had the advantage of a common border, could not defeat a ragtag lot of Muslim fanatics(don’t bother excusing their failure saying it was due to the outside help, if you are going to cook in the kitchen, you got to withstand the heat) how can the Americans, who are expected and for the most part, follow the rules in war, expect a positive outcome in Iraq? Forget democracy there or anywhere in that region, the people are still in a medieval mindset. The American effort ,from a long term view, would have fared better if the military adventure was not headed by the arrogant political Republican hacks. The field commanders did their job in 3 weeks, a fine feat but Rumsfield’s arrogance about doing the war on the cheap basically ruined chances for long term success.

Iraq is in a mess. Be a man and eat your words. Admit that your much-loved Bush Republicans are leading the way to abject failure. And I am not so rude as to throw fodder in your face, I made it presentable on a plate. Here are some more words to eat: The “Quagmire” part.
PS: I would love to eat my words, that will only come if the Americans manage to successfully withdraw from Iraq leaving behind a stable somewhat democratic government. And I am prepared to accept that it may only happen with the next president. So I will keep some HP sauce for myself just in case.

Another Ace Rant
Wednesday, June 30, 2004
Looking back at all the pre-war hand-wringing by the liberal "Blame America First" crowd in North America, none of them augured the overwhelmingly positive developments in Iraq. The Vietnam quagmire they foresaw/hoped for never materialized. Instead, we see 90%+ of the country stable, the tyrant Saddam Hussein in a jail cell awaiting trial for crimes against humanity, a successful transfer of power from the Coalition Provisional Authority to an Iraqi transitional government just 15 months after the start of the invasion, and free elections due within the next year. I don't know about you, but I would call that a pretty successful "quagmire".
posted by Ace @ 1:49 PM

Canuckguy Comment: Yes, I certainly agree, it is a very successful “quagmire”. Oh, yeah, 3 years later, things are getting so much better over there(being facetious and sarcastic here for any lurkers observing this cat fight) Let’s face it, the success list is a facade, just window dressing. Get out the HP sauce again and enjoy. To answer azgopbabeval , the argument naturally flowed into other areas because of an earlier comment about swallowing the big lies. Besides I love to bait Bush Republicans. And as for your other comment, well gee, why don’t you just suggest shutting down all the blogs and we all can get back to work and stop solving the world’s problems with pointless arguments.


Famous Quotes:
Churchill: “I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.”
Roosevelt: “… the only thing we have to fear is fear itself…”
Santayana: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”
Bush Jr.
“Mission Accomplished”
“Bring them on”
“Brownie, yer doin’ a heck of a job”

 
At 3/23/2006 8:22 AM, Blogger Ace said...

There are a lot of things going on in Iraq that are simply not getting reported in the mainstream media, which for some reason seems hellbent on pushing the "Quagmire" meme. Thankfully, there are many blogs from people on the ground in Iraq, including military grunts, foreign journalists, and even Iraqi citizens, that portray a much more balanced view of the situation.

 
At 3/23/2006 8:46 AM, Anonymous Canuckguy said...

Generally bad news dominates the headlines, I grant you that. Anyway, time will tell who eats their words. The jury is still out.

 
At 3/23/2006 8:54 AM, Blogger Ace said...

Indeed. In the meantime, enjoy the "Flying Cat" video.

 
At 3/23/2006 12:05 PM, Blogger azgopbabeval said...

Still failing to see the correlation between Iraq & Global Warming.
Are you trying to say that because we are Republican, it all must be our fault. lol.
HOORAY FOR THE FLYING CAT!!!!
MEOW!

 
At 3/23/2006 4:47 PM, Anonymous canuckguy said...

Yes Azgo, that is pretty well it. But it is specific to Bush Republicans.

 
At 3/23/2006 9:38 PM, Blogger Ace said...

I've always considered myself more of a Reagan/Coolidge Republican, actually. Not so much a Mulroney Conservative, though.

 

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